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and taking action. there has been an incredible change in the community. when sutter taught this course, he started teaching it with 40 or 50 people. the very last time he taught it, it was 300. >> [indiscernible] -- which is a good start. but we need to take this moment and gain some momentum. and say that we need to educate america. what role you think there is in the mainstream media and to try to get some designated shows the talk about this day in and day out? this is not the fiscal cliff, but the climate cliff? getting politicians, authors, experts, so that the rest of america hears it. i really hope that this will be the next wave, talking about solutions. >> the good news is that there are already some wonderful things coming. if is a great series. it is coming out of showtime. they go interviewing people around the country and record any impact on the lives. i think that increasing the awareness, that this is an issue that happens to me in my life, where i love, none of the people of bears for the island, but me living in san antonio tx or me living in concord or seattle for miami.
that's the right way -- a civil disobedience direct action is a way to pressure the government? >> well, that's one. i think peaceful disobedience is one way to draw attention. i'm not suggesting that young scientists do that and get an arrest record, but when you're my age, it's not -- it's fine. [laughter]. but, again, it's important to really think through the problem, through the solution. and i really object to politicians and others who say scientists should just stick to narrow science and not look at the whole problem, because you do have to connect the dots and scientists are actually trained to be objective and to understand complex problems and this is a complex problem. >> but some people would say that your activism clouds your science. >> well, the science has to be judged on its own merrits. i frankly think that the scrutiny of my papers has become greater. and -- but, anyway, they have -- >> the fbi or who are you talking about? [laughter] >> no, i'm talking about -- >> scientists. >> not even as much the scientists as editors. you know, they're very cautious, even when
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